Giving the Dog a Bone
“As an animal lover who decries their abuse, it is unpleasant and confusing to have ambivalent feelings about certain types of bestiality. This is compounded by the fact that I really want to believe that people who act on this fetish are deluded miscreants and that the dogs are victims, plain and simple. To address this publicly was not an easy thing to do, as glib as I may have come across. This is not an issue of my trying to be open-minded about everything sexual. To have my mind opened even a sliver on this issue is unwelcome and scary, but I feel I’m required to admit that my findings were not as clear as I had hoped. As a sex columnist, I can’t ignore the 500-pound gorilla in the room that is the history of bestiality, and the words commonly offered to condemn it by even the most liberal people (’It feels wrong’), are inadequate. Certainly it would be much easier on my conscience to write about a new lubricant, Good For Her or The Ethical Slut…” —Eye Weekly (Canada)
This is an excerpt from a long, honest, and thoughtful editorial by Sasha, the sex columnist for the Eye. She had written a previous piece about bestiality, and her relative openness to it freaked out her readers and generated a glob of hate mail. In response, Sasha wrote this lengthy consideration of the ethical issues surrounding bestiality. If animal sex is something that interests you, you’d very much enjoy reading her piece.
In spite of Sasha’s own disclaimers, it’s hard not to get the sense that her stance on bestiality represents a contradiction in her own outlook. She does seem to want to take a liberal attitude toward sexual matters, and for that reason is unwilling to condemn bestiality outright. Conversely, this unwillingness to condemn bestiality conflicts with another inclination of liberalism, which is to accord respect and grant rights to animals. How can anyone reconcile these two viewpoints? How can you claim to treat animals with dignity if you also claim it’s ok to screw or be screwed by them?
If animals were rational beings, this wouldn’t be such an issue. If dogs could talk, they could consent to sexual relations in such a way that a court of law would consider their consent rational and informed. But dogs can’t talk, and thus even if they initiate sexual activity with a human, the issue of consent remains murky. “If dogs unequivocally deserve the same consideration as humans,” writes Sasha, “should I then consider every horny dog’s unwanted sexual advances on me to be abuse as well? Seen this way, does this analogy seem ludicrous to you?” Yes, it does seem ludicrous, but not because equal rights should be extended to dogs. Rather, it seems ludicrous because dogs just aren’t rational.
There was a prominent case a few years ago where a mentally incompetent girl basically allowed a party of boys to have sex with her. The boys were charged with rape, the theory being that the consent of a person who isn’t fully rational is meaningless. But if that’s the case with humans, then wouldn’t it be even truer with animals? How can a dog possibly understand the implications of a sexual act? It would be outrageous and illegal if you trained a retarded kid to lick your genitals. So on what grounds can you claim it’s ok to train a dog to do the same? On the one hand, if you say it’s ok because the dog consents to do it, then it ought to be ok if the retard consents to do it. On the other hand, if you say it’s ok to train a dog because a dog is not rational or conscious, then you admit that a dog can’t give consent. Bestiality is therefore rape. In either case, you’re left with a sort of inconsistency in your sexual mores. And no doubt that is precisely what proves “unwelcome and scary” to Sasha and to everyone else as well.
“On the other hand, if you say it’s ok to train a dog because a dog is not rational or conscious, then you admit that a dog can’t give consent. Bestiality is therefore rape.”
Non sequitur. It’s okay to use a sex toy because a toy is not rational or conscious. It can’t give consent. But I can’t rape a sex toy. It’s a piece of property.
(Not defending bestiality, just making a point of logic.)
Animals aren’t property…? Just because we have to treat them right doesn’t mean we own them.
Blah, Just because we have to treat them right doesn’t mean we -DON’T- own them. typo.
Jeremy, you should be dragged onto the streets, beaten with a whip and then have a tram run over your genitals. How dare you think that a dog is your property?? May 10 dogs attack you on the streets and bite your nuts off!!
“Dogs just aren’t rational”? Allow me to argue that it is actually humans who aren’t rational! Think about it (and please forgive the irony there). Humans are the only species to argue over a supreme being. They are trying to rationalize what they cannot control by invoking the work of an unseen being. Do dogs try to please someone or something unseen by offering prayer to them? That human activity is just one example of how irrational we are. Perhaps we spend far too much time trying to prove that we are different and better than animals are. I often wish I weren’t a human animal!
“It would be outrageous and illegal if you trained a retarded kid to lick your genitals.” - True. So very true. But then people do that as well I imagine.
Hi,
I think you have to make a choice in these matters: Either a dog is equal to humans or it isn’t. If a dog really is ‘just an animal’, than it is property with which you can do whatever you wish(srry Scurvy Dawg). I he really is as good as humans than there is the question whether or not it has the capacibility of making the right choise. If it hasn’t, that means that his owner must make desisions for it, including whether or not it has sex with a human. If he does have the right to make its own choice, than humping up somebody’s leg could be seen as an invite.
Does this make any sense at all? ‘Cause I don’t know anymore; I lost myself at the second sentance.
Final comments 1: ”How can you claim to treat animals with dignity if you also claim it’s ok to screw or be screwed by them?”
How can you claim to treat animals with dignity if you say that animals have to be shielded form anything sexual. A dog’s master already decides when it has sex, why not let them decide with what or whom it has sex?
Final comments 2: ”The boys were charged with rape, the theory being that the consent of a person who isn’t fully rational is meaningless.” I find it ludicrous that they were conficted. I mean, I don’t know all the facts, but it seems to me that the boys thought they were just finding a liberal woman, or maybe one that was high, either way, I think the boys didn’t know that they had sex with a mentally incompetant girl. If they did know on the other hand, they should rot in hell.
Final comments 3: You compare a dog with a retard, which I find impossible. Mostly because a retard has family that suffers when he or she is sexually abused. If a dog dies, its mother won’t lay still for more than a week.
Final comment 4: To Chester, we aren’t trying to proof we’re better; we just are. If you look at strengh, than you could see that men can kill any animal. Next time you see an animal create something, call me. Untill then I’ll keep my point of view.
HP locutus, causa finita.
To Halene Pabamog,
Well, thank you for not even trying to deal with the logic I presented. Indeed humans have created tools with with to kill any animal. What does that prove? That has nothing to do with their rationality. THat simply goes to necessity of survival. I think I’ll keep my own point of view too.
Hi,
Then, again to Chester, my point was that we were better, but I’ll do it your way then. Just because humans are better, doesn’t mean we’re perfect. Religion is a consiquence of fear. Fear that humans are just a freak of nature. It indeed isn’t logical, it’s emotional. But here is where I’ll quote a saying: ‘The exeption confirms the rule.’ For every example you can give for humans being irrational, I can give one for people being rational. The very means I am using to say this gives man some kind of credit. We were so rational that we thought: ‘hey if I do this and that, I have the internet.’ You are right when you say that humans are animals, just like I’m right when I say that humans are better than other animals. I’m still not sure what it is exactly that I’m trying to say, but I think I’ve got the most of it. Anything else you’d like to know?
Sincerely,
HP
HP locutus, causa finita
First, we’re putting humans in one category (cognizant (sp?) of the self)… and, you’re putting animals into another category (non-cognizant (sp again?) of themselves. I agree with the former discussion… we’re no different… we wear clothing… that’s all…
I had a mother-in-law who was stupid as the day is long… and, on a previous discussion, I’ve met many retarded (or challenged) children/people who were, quite frankly… quite bright… Anyway, Mom-in-law insisted animals don’t have souls…. my response… how the fu*k would you know? This, as her great dane would some over and hump my leg as I was petting his head…
As humans, we attribute human emotion to different sources… the wailing wall, the weeping willow… etc… it’s human nature… we’ve got too much grey matter surrounding our smooth brains… Of course, we’re going to attribute our own victorian morals to the animal kingdom… the dog… horney as they may be… doesn’t care…
Dogs are not stupid, they just don’t speak English. They speak with body language, they should be treated with respect. In my opinion animals are almost better, not tainted with this obsession of dieties and such garbage, enjoying their lives (providing their ‘owner’ treats them well)
On the subject of the case… bestiality is split into two groups beastiality (people who have sex with animals for their enjoyment) and zoophilia (a sexuality that comes naturally, the desire to be in a relationship with an animal.) I have talked with some ‘zoos’ they are rational (despite the medias bashing, but I forgive them they’re just uneducated on the subject) I think rather then looking at cases individually when they hear the word zoosexuality they immeadietly think rape is the accompanying word. Sexuality is a touchy subject, some people think certain things are fetishes and others are born with something they have no control over.
Just as long as these ‘zoos’ are true to their animal lovers and treat them equal / higher then themselves I will feel they deserve a better name.
I have to wonder if everyone will still think humans are better then non-human animals after we are all dead from either some meaningless war, or the toxins we ingest everyday.
Dude who stares at inanimate objects,
You have indeed done your research and I applaude your post. I agree that zoos deserve a better name but the problem is that people for the most part are not capable of seeing two different things. Everything gets lumped into the same group as you have noted. But I really don’t think I can blame people for this. Afterall, their beliefs are based upon the articles or mentions of bestiality that they see in the media. These are always negative so it is understandable that the majority of folks are ignorant to this other side. Most people haven’t even likely ever heard the words Zoo or Zoophile or Zoosexual. I am not sure what else there is to write here but I just want to state again that your post was well informed and I applaude it.
Mind you this is the ‘bestiality’ section, this site clearly is based around trying to promote the tabooing of underground sexualities.
The reason zoosexuality has such a bad reputation is because the actual zoos who love their animals keep silent as they’re lovers. Only the negitive side of this sexuality is really exploited. Because the public eye loves everything against jeudo-christian doctrine and evedentially the news makes a lot of money off these types of stories.
A lot of the stories featured on here aren’t of zoophilia but indeed bestiality, usually a spur of the moment ‘I think I’m going to give the dog a bone since I’m bored’ rather then a sexual attraction.
I dispise when people think animals have no intelligence, its appauling really… clearly humans seem somewhat jelous that animals are more pure of moralistic virtue? While we’re confined to oppressive ignorance and stupidity.
We are the opposite of animals, yet one of them except we traded rationality and instinct for ignorance and english.
Chester: “Dogs just aren’t rational”? Allow me to argue that it is actually humans who aren’t rational! Think about it (and please forgive the irony there). Humans are the only species to argue over a supreme being.”
Well yeah, but you assume that means animals don’t believe in a supreme being. I assume that they do believe. Gorillas who had their young die have been observed to look skyward in anguish precisely as a human might. Of course it could be interpeted in other ways.
This doesnt apply to any other situation really but i have a hard time believing a male dog mounting a girl violates the animals rights or pushes them into something they don’t want to do when they very obviously want to.
“How can a dog possibly understand the implications of a sexual act?”
Clearly they know what an orgasm is, and their desire to achieve this is not encumbered by human issues, nor should it be. This is simply not an “either/or/therefore” case.
My lifelong fascination of the species K-9 shows me that dogs are on a close social parity with humans. A dogs dedication to group leader is much stronger than humans though.
If you are a dog owner, then you are its leader. The dog will go to great lengths to satisfy your will and whims. It would be so easy to take advantage of your pets loyalty and devotion.
I have viewed pornography involving humans and dogs, and I am enraged by most of what I have seen.
I am shocked that men could be so imperceptive to believe that a female dog would actually enjoy being raped by a man. I realise that a Bitch (as in female dog) will go into ‘heat’ if not spaid and she will be hot for sex. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE DOG WANTS TO BE PYSICALLY HARMED BY YOU!
A male dog, in my opinion, is another story. A male dog wanting to ‘hump’ you can be responded to without perpetrating abuse. The male dog will not be harmed and - trust me - He will get immense pleasure and satisfaction.
As long as you do not have to spend a lot of effort or ‘coerce’ your pet into mounting you, I see no abuse. It can be, and is, a beautifull thing. PR
Ok, here’s my point of view. If you don’t FORCE the dog to do it, then it won’t do it. If the writer on this article would actually read on a bitch’s behaviour, you would find that they CAN and WILL refuse advances, either by sitting down, lowering their tail, or growling and snapping. Any logical living being would realize she doesn’t want it and should therefore stop. If she’s in her estrus, then she might want it, she might not. If not, then ok, if so, then have a good time with her. Same applies for males, who are just like adult humans, indefinately horny. They can say no and walk off if you don’t intrest them you know, they can think just like we can. They may not be rocket scientists, but then again…neither are you or I.
“How can a dog possibly understand the implications of a sexual act?” What implications?! Orgasm? A pleasant sensation? Dogs live in the moment. They’re not going to be racked by guilt, traumatised (as long as the sex was body language consensual), fall pregnant etc. So what are these implications we have to consider?
Parasites…please…the earth was flat, woman and minority humans were inferior…we thought lead and asbestos were Grrreeat! building materials…get my point yet?? You know nothing…I know nothing…WE KNOW NOTHING empirically…I feel that animals have memory, hopes and dreams…my cats, whom I love as family for 10, 7.5 and 3 years respectively, recieve no sexual attention from me…only guardianship and purest love. My oldest cat mourns the death of a litter of six kittens by picking up small toys at night and howling…every three months or so for a few nights…her children died eight years ago now…
My dog has refused my sexual advances and begged for them…much less on the refusals…tail tuck, low grumble means she’s had enough for a while…this Christmas day she gifted me with three tantric sexual sessions, the last of which she put herself on her back for me, smiled and presented her wet muff…I’ll tap her gently one last time before christmas is over, so long as she’s in the mood.
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