Mailbag: In Defense of the Manhattan Madam
Recently PervScan received the following note from a defender of Julie Moya, the now notorious “Manhattan Madam.”
Dear PervScan,
I’m writing to you because of the things you cover in your blog and because you seem pretty reasonable and I think you’re in New York too. I think you should do a story about Julie Moya. She was the lady that ran the escort service Julie’s of New York. Did you see her story in the papers?
I was a customer of Julie’s and I would just like to say that she was one of the nicest people you could ever want to meet. When it came out in the papers that she gave money to animal charities I wasn’t surprised. She was the kind of person who would give you the shirt off her back. I only met her a few times, but you could just tell she was a nice lady. You could tell what kind of person she was by the way she ran her business. I often thought she must have picked girls not for looks but for niceness. Julie was good people.
And it’s a damn shame when you see good people get in trouble like that, especially since what they’re saying in the papers is not true. Julie did not hire underage girls or import Russian virgins. If there was any of that, I sure didn’t see it. Most of the girls were twenties or thirties. A lot of them came from Canada, where prostitution is basically legal. Isn’t that weird? A lot of her girls were doing something legal in their country but Julie got arrested because she was helping them do it here in this country.
Julie was doing one thing illegal. She was providing girls (I should say women so you don’t think they were young girls) to guys who paid to have sex with them. There was nothing else she was doing wrong. And I don’t think that’s so wrong anyhow. A girl I know at another place swears Rudy Giuliani (hypocrite) uses a place on the upper east side. The papers should get a picture of him sneaking out of an AMP.
Anyhow I wish you would do something, start a petition or something. Julie is a great person. She ran a nice business. She wasn’t involved with drugs or the mob. New York City should be proud to have more people like her and the cops should spend their time on the real scumbags.
Sincerely,
Angry John
To most New Yorkers, the story of Ms. Moya is probably unremarkable. Pick up any random copy of the New York Post and you’ll likely find a story about someone busted for running a prostitution ring. And really there wasn’t much remarkable about the story, which is why PervScan didn’t feature it. Unlike some purveyors of prostitution, Ms. Moya didn’t run her business out of a hot dog stand or a fruit store.
But Angry John and certain other web chatterers insist that Ms. Moya ran the nicest little whorehouse in New York. Well, what of it? When you listen to an audio interview with Ms. Moya, she certainly sounds like an intelligent person, and her refusal to rat on any of her high-profile clients might paint her as a madam with relatively high moral standards. Apparently Ms. Moya had a popular web site where she sold her services. It is now defunct but if you access the cache on archive.org or on Google, the women that it offers hardly seem underage. But how do you know? It might have been a word-of-mouth service.
All things being said, Angry John is probably right. Ms. Moya is probably a nice person who happened to be involved in an illicit business. Oblivious to the many good reasons for legalizing prostitution, law enforcement will probably “make an example” of her. But if she’s an example of anything, it just may be the maxim that nice guys — and gals too — often finish last.
Listen, prostitution in Canada is not ‘basically legal’. Whatever gives you that impression is wildly wrong - gay marriage, safe injection sites, and in some of the West, Cannibis, but prostitution - not even vaguely acceptable, anywhere. Canada does not represent happy liberal Netherland ideals. It’s just happy and liberal.
Angry Canadian, PervScan hesitates to tell you about your own country, but some research suggests that prostitution has a complex legal status in Canada. For example:
http://mypage.uniserve.ca/~lowman/ProLaw/prolawcan.htm
“While the activity proscribed by each law is relatively clear, the overall goal of Canadian prostitution law is not. Apparently it is not prohibition, otherwise the buying and selling of sexual services as such would be prohibited. However, the aforementioned criminal laws circumscribe prostitution in a way that makes it difficult to conceive how a person can prostitute without breaking the law. The practical solution to this contradiction is that, as long as it is off the street, laws against prostitution are rarely enforced. Indeed, most large municipalities facilitate the off-street trade by licensing and regulating it. And yet the rhetoric of Canadian politicians about prostitution is almost entirely abolitionist. The Canadian political solution to the problems created by prostitution has been to say one thing and do another.”
http://www.sexwork.com/montreal/law.html
“Prostitution is legal in all of Canada it has been part of the Federal Criminal Code since at least mid 1800s. It is similar to British law and laws in much of Europe. Local communities can establish brothels and have some other limited powers such as licensing and zoning but can not outlaw prostitution which flourishes throughout Canada. Many Canadian cities have required escort licensing. But all it does is raise money at the sexworkers expense, since there is no real advantage of being licensed other than to comply with a city revenue raising requirement since prostitution is legal anyway.”
Perhaps Angry John, who made the claim about prostitution being “basically legal” in Canada, has some first-hand experience or other knowledge of the situation.
Angry Canadian, if you have any further clarification about prostitution’s status in Canada, people would certainly be interested to know. As it stands, the law sounds rather ambiguous — and if there’s ambiguity, it would be reasonable to presume that prostitutes and johns and pimps exploit it.
some may think Moya did nothing wrong - but what about the wives & children of her customers? O.K. O.K. so I am being overly moral? Think about it. If these guys weren’t getting it at home - how about divorcing the wife and THEN seeing Ms. Julie instead of taking your money to her establishment when it could be spent on your family or some therapy.
Ok, peeved, so some guys are jerks. Some guys aren’t. But it’s none of a prostitute’s business if her clients are married. Of course, she can make it her business, if she wants. But its none of the law’s business whether a guy cheats on his wife. Adultery is not a crime, at least in the USA. It does have an effect on civil cases between the involved parties, as it should. Other than that lets keep the government out of the bedroom.
What’s interesting to me is that the NYPD started out with one of the higher priced outfits in American Beauties, moved a little downscale to NYConfidential, and then with Julies, which was definitely a notch below. at the same time, there still are services that operate (more intelligently) that are thriving. portfolioelite, monalisa, belledujour.
I doubt that these services employ underage girls but many of them are visiting for Europe so there is no way to find out now whether they are legal or not.
As an average citizen very much against prostitution, morally, I have to question the governing system and laws concerning prostitution. It seems to me that the only interest for these “law-abiders” comes down to money, as usual. Prostitution, a misdemenour(spelling?) goes with a light fine, very little, if any jail time, and a “see ya again soon” attitude from these oh so lawbiding perfect citizens which we all know would never solicit sex, buy porn materials, magazines, or so much as even look at another human with desire. Funny how when money is being made (The American Dream makes this possible), and the government hasn’t rightfully earned their “part” of that profit, suddenly the issue isn’t “prostitution”(”selling and buying of sex”)but rather how much money was made and how much did the government lose out on. No morals are any part of the prostitution business. I am not saing that prostitution should be legal, because as a concerned, MORAL person, I am concerned with the real issues, sexual abuse, spread of diseases, domestic violence,etc. and loss of one’s soul. The world is full of choices that we are all free to make and either gain or lose from them. Maybe if the focus was on building more positive, self-esteem building, MORAL experiences for people beginning from birth and being more active in creating community and family experiences, we would maybe decrease these behaviors. I know Julie personally and though she may have chosen a life and lifestyle not in agreement with my own, I offer partial blame to the very system that busts such individuals and then use them to promote more of the same. There are many possible solutions or in the very least, possible decreasers to many of the problems our county faces, but why discuss those unless there’s a “fund” to access in order to implement the solutions. I say, it’s just not that important to promote healthy, spiritual, moral persons because that means a change in thinking, acting and reacting, facing the demons, and doing whatever it takes and that is just too hard and way too time consuming. Thank you to all of you who gallantly attempt to make these positives happen and actually do see the benefits of believing they can and will! However, unfortunately, it’s easier to keep bringing in the same criminals, seeing the same faces and the same crimes and slapping monetary fines that mean so little to so many or they wouldn’t need to commit many of the crimes that are commited in the first place and have a “see ya again” attitude rather than actually geting at the cores of these problems and facing and taking them on. I made mistakes as a young person myself, but because of the support I have received from family, friends, and community, I will rasie my children to make better choices and to KNOW the value of themselves!!!!! Hopefully, that makes a world of difference for my future generations. For goodness sakes, we have parents, by birth alone, who sexually abuse their own children and who emotionally and physically torture them. We have REPEAT offenders that are basically given additional opportunities to commit such horrible, disgusting, vial offenses on children. IF these children survive, why would they NOT become the same kinds of creatures in many cases. We need to break this up and start valuing children and building them into better adults. Maybe it won’t work on everyone, but I venture to say that we would see a decrease in the evil and a growth in the good. Afterall, humans develop from their life experiences. Let’s create laws and consequences that will help to nurture positive experiences. Often times, I hear from the children I work with, “No one will help me!” How tragic and how TRUE!
Julie has to be able to face her own conscience and know that God cannot be fooled by that decision. As for the rest of us, as long as we continue to accept that as long as we are happy and healthy and striving in our own little familes, we too will have to face an unfooled God!
The world is full of Julies and a whole lot worse. But until we start valuing human life from the moment a baby takes its first breath, we will never be able to make a true difference. I’m not saying that aprents are to blame for everything, I’m just saying that it’s a place to begin with a hope of positive growth.
hey..i am from canada…and prostitution is legal but soliciting is illegal..you cant really do one without the other…but..its tolerated..frowned upon but tolerated…there are some funny stipulations..such as..you can have 10 girls working in a one bedroom apartment..and thats ok…but if you have more than one girl in an apartment with more than one room…it can be closed for being a common body house..of course..nobody ever gets arrested..or shut down…the laws are never really enforced….unless your getting alot of complaints..in which case…the police knock on your door…and politely tell you that you need to relocate..yes..you can register an escort service in canada legally..but you can do that here to…escorting and companionship are legal in nyc…aaaaah…its all about the wording!!!! the reason we all work in new york where its illegal instead of canada where it is legal…is because..the money is longer and greener out here and the consequences are minimal…..worst case scenario….lets use julie as an example….well…lets see…hmmmmmm…let me run a multi million dollar business for ten years…and get a total of a year and a half in jail…lol…and the only reason she is doing ant time is because she has a prior coke conviction that was pretty heavy…otherwise..she wouldnt have spent more than 24 hours in jail…as for the rest of us independents…in and out within hours…at the most overnight..2 cheese sandwiches, a 200 dollar fine and or a few days of community service…with only a disorderly conduct charge that can be removed from your record after a year….wow….a misdemaenor…not really much of a reason for worry!!!!…
This is Julie Moya,
I was just released from prison on the 26 of Febuary / 2007.
Many things in the media were very very wrong and so horrible that I could not read much of it. I am in a half way house and my life is very different of course. I did commit a crime but I think I got more than any other madam would ever get for offering services. I give my thanks to those who cared enough to write and I mean that. Many of my animals were also killed due to the situation that happened to me. I am really saddened for them. Julies was a good place and we treated our girls and clients with the most respect possible. I did not give up my clients because I knew that they would be accused of things they never did , the judge would have been crucified. It was a tragedy to say the least.
Good to hear you’re out, Julie. It’s a damn shame what happened. You’re a really sweet person and the place you ran was the best I’ve evern been, before or since. A real classy place — and I, for one, never saw anything illegal there but the one obvious thing. No underage girls or anything like that.
Best of luck moving on with your life.
Whorehouses are like buses. Miss one, and another one comes along before you know it.
Sometimes, even the driver is the same.
I have nothing against prostitutes, madams or even pimps, as long as it involves consenting adults. I don’t even have anything against a citizen cooperating with police when it comes to catching a person who mugs senior citizens, molests little children, a serial killer or rapist. However Julie Moya would never had went to prison if she didn’t have a prior felony conviction for having better than a kilo of cocaine and only received probation. Why did she get probation, because she snitched and I have a problem with snitches. She also had a 15 year old girl work for her which she claimed she didn’t know she was underage but she told the girl to perform unprotected oral sex (bbbj) on clients. Encouraging anyone to commit unsafe sex acts I also have a problem with. A lot of the people working for her ratted her out. I say what comes around goes around. She’s a snitch a lowlife rat. I feel no sympathy for her!
Julie Moya was convicted of felony cocaine charges and received probation in return for her being a snitch. Because of her prior felony conviction when she was arrested and indicted on felony Promoting Prostitution she had to serve mandatory state prison time. Two and a half to five years. Some of her workers ratted on her. What comes around goes around Julie. She’s a snitch and a rat. Stop The Snitching!!!!!!!!!!!!
People have the opinions and that is ok, I will say that when it came to drugs I did cooperate and I did do some amount of time and 5 years probation. When it comes to prostitution I really don’t think it is a terrible crime. I did not snitch on any of my clients because I truly believe that prostitution is a service. A woman has a right to have an abortion because it is her body so why can’t she make a decision to offer it for money? She is not selling drugs to hurt anyone, Underaged girls ,they can get into bars and clubs when they want and that is just what happened to Julies ,one girl got in. By the way in the end that charge was dropped. Many people like to rag on other people and that is ok, but you really can not believe in all the stuff the papers say because they are going by things they are told. Prostitution should be legal and things would be monitored such as certificates for health, age, taxes would be paid.
What’s next for you Julie?
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